You Can't Silence Us

Punches Are Not Lethal Force

There appears to be a group of men who are either afraid of the law being used against them, or are using the law as a fig leaf to avoid getting in a fight. From multiple comments on the delivery of a punch to someone that is sexually assaulting your wife:

If that haymaker kills or disables the drunk, how well can you take care of your wife from prison. He could have backed up the drunk verbally, then if the drunk throws a punch, now it’s self defense.

The claim is that a punch becomes “Deadly Force” if someone dies. It’s a question that comes up often in discussions about self-defense:

If you throw a punch to defend yourself and the other person unexpectedly dies, does that automatically turn your action into “deadly force”?

The answer is simple: No it does not, at least not in Florida. What matters is the force applied, not the outcome of the force used. If the punch was lawful at the time it was delivered, the fact that the person who was punched later died is immaterial. Florida courts have been clear on this point:
Whether force is considered “deadly” depends on the nature of the force used at the time—not the result. In other words, the legal system doesn’t start from a lethal outcome and then work backward from to label the level of force used. Instead, it asks:

Was the force used likely to cause death or great bodily harm when it was applied?

A single punch, in most situations, is not considered deadly force even if, in a tragic and unforeseen way, it leads to death. One of the key controlling court cases in this matter is Hosnedl v. State 126 So.3d 400 (2013). In this case, the defendant was involved in a physical altercation. He used his hands/fists (no weapon), and the person who was punched unfortunately died. The legal dispute wasn’t just what happened, but how the jury should evaluate the level of force used.

The jury was given the stricter self-defense rules for the use of lethal force since the had person died. The defense argued this was wrong because the force used (punching) was not necessarily deadly force. The defense was overruled by the trial court. The defense then filed an appeal. The appellate court agreed with the defense and made an important clarification:

Whether force is “deadly” depends on the nature of the force used—not the result.

As a result of this case:

  • Fists are not automatically deadly force
  • Even if serious injury (or death) occurs, that doesn’t automatically make the force “deadly”
  • The jury should decide whether the force used was:
    • Likely to cause great bodily harm or death (deadly), or
    • Not likely to do so (non-deadly)

How Florida Law Defines Force

Florida’s self-defense law separates force into two categories:

  • Non-deadly force: Force not likely to cause death or serious bodily harm
  • Deadly force: Force likely to cause death or great bodily harm

This distinction is critical because different legal standards apply to each. You’re generally allowed to use non-deadly force to stop an imminent threat, but deadly force is only justified under much stricter circumstances.

Under Florida law, a person is justified in using force—including deadly force if necessary—to prevent an imminent sexual battery. That means:

  • A punch used to stop a sexual assault will almost always be viewed as justified force
  • The legal question becomes: Was the force reasonably necessary to stop the attack?

So now that we have cleared that hurdle, is it legal to punch someone for groping your wife?

Under Florida law (Fla. Stat. § 794.011):

Sexual battery = oral, anal, or vaginal penetration OR union with the sexual organ of another
“Union” means any contact, not just penetration

Courts interpret “sexual organ” to include buttocks in certain contexts involving lewd touching, especially when tied to sexual intent. See Richards v. State (Florida 4th District Court of Appeal, 1999)  and also Gordon v. State, as well as State v. Hearns.

Now we have established that a person grabbing a woman’s hips and stroking her buttocks without her consent is sexual battery. Since it was done without her consent and using physical force, that makes it a forcible felony. This isn’t even an attempted or imminent battery- the mere touching of her buttocks without consent means that the battery is ongoing and in progress. All of the elements are in place, this is a crime.

Considering these circumstances, if the husband deemed it reasonably necessary, he would be authorized to use deadly force to stop this attack. However, that isn’t what he did, as we showed above, a punch IS NOT DEADLY FORCE under Florida law.

Under Florida Statute § 776.012, a person may use force—including even deadly force—if they reasonably believe it’s necessary to prevent an imminent forcible felony (which includes sexual battery). So the real legal question isn’t “Was a punch allowed?” The actual question is “Was that level of force reasonably necessary to stop what was happening right then?”

Short answer: Yes—using a punch to stop that kind of unwanted groping would very likely be seen as reasonable under Florida law, assuming the force stops once the crime ends.

A court would typically look at:

  • Was this non-consensual sexual contact?
  • Was it happening in the moment (imminent)?
  • Did the woman (or a third party) reasonably perceive it as a sexual assault or escalation risk?

If the answer is yes, then a single punch to break contact or stop the assault is very likely to be viewed as:

  • Non-deadly force
  • Proportionate
  • Reasonably necessary

People who have read this post: 80
By Divemedic, ago

Stupidity

I mean, yeah. That’s how we got rid of street drugs like meth, marijuana, and heroin. We just passed a law with harsh sentences and prison. Now that’s solved, let’s move on to obesity.

The lockpicking lawyer? Why pick the lock when I can just cut the case open with a Sawzall? Do these incel retards even know how to use tools?

Revoke all carry permits? Yeah, OK.

Government buybacks? What happens if I don’t want to sell?

I don’t need to rent a shooting range. Once they start confiscations, I can call 911 and a target will be delivered to my location in 10 minutes or less.

People who have read this post: 189
By Divemedic, ago

Rooftop Korean

Tony Moon is THE rooftop Korean from the 1992 Rodney King riots. Here is what he had to say:

If you don’t defend your own family, who is going to do it? The cops?

Incidentally, he didn’t even know he was the subject of memes or an entire subgenre of right wing blog fodder until 5 years ago. The left absolutely hates his ass. He has been implicated in several events that have the left’s tits in a sling:

This dude is getting it done. Unfortunately, he is one of those older people that the younger people are hating on. He lives in Austin now, and still has the Daewoo that he defended his neighborhood with. He was recently on the Unsubscribe podcast. Good watch, even if it is a bit long.

There are still some men who are willing to step up.

People who have read this post: 185
By Divemedic, ago

Teens

About 1,000 ‘teens’ rushed in and ‘took over’ an Orlando attraction. They rushed ICON Park on International Drive, which is in the heart of Orlando’s tourist area just down the street from the Orlando Convention center. I used to go to the area a lot- there is a lot to do there, and the restaurants are pretty good. ICON park has a large Ferris wheel called the Orlando Eye.

What did these ‘teens’ do when they got there? Why, they started fights, ran off paying customers, and punched the cops who responded. Nine of them were arrested and two cops were injured. The ‘teens’ were exactly what you would expect them to be. Damned Norwegians and Amish people cause trouble wherever they go.

Anyhow, the families of these poor victims of systemic racism are complaining and threatening to sue. This is why I stay far away from Orlando these days. It used to be that teens stayed in their part of town. Now that isn’t the case any longer.

People who have read this post: 373
By Divemedic, ago

What This Means

I am now thinking we are not going to have a Civil War in this country. Instead, we are going to slide into a pussified version of woke communism. Why? Because the men in this nation are pussies. Not all of them, but enough of them that the vision of the right fighting back is more of a cosplay fantasy than a reality. I know this is the third post on this, but bear with me for a minute. A dude is fondling another guy’s wife. The husband punches him, and men line up to say punching is an overreaction.

Don’t carry a gun. Don’t get a Punisher tattoo. Don’t talk about how you are going to dominate the left in some upcoming CW2. You can’t even defend your wife from a man who is fondling her. You say you are afraid of going to jail when your punch accidentally kills him, or you are afraid your wife will divorce you for lack of anger control. No, what’s going on here is that the men of this country are pussies. If you won’t even protect your family, you certainly won’t protect your nation. Honestly, I’m not even sure that a nation of men who allow their women to be groped by drunken morons is worth defending.

So the “men” of this nation will sit there, staring at the floor in shame, as another man ravishes their woman. They will call the cops, who will perhaps take a report, perhaps not, but more than likely won’t arrest this attacker. Even if the guy is arrested, it is likely he will face no punishment. All because you are afraid.

I just can’t get past this. Our nation is over. It’s done. Maybe I am the proverbial old man ranting at the cloud and the society I think we should have no longer can exist. Maybe it never did.

People who have read this post: 406
By Divemedic, ago

Security Layers

No agency has an unlimited budget of manpower and money. Even if they did, there are still going to be limitations. In the case of the WHCD, it was located in a Hilton that still was operating. The people in that hotel still have rights, as does the hotel itself. For that reason, the Secret Service has limits to its power and what it can do to protect those in their care.

When I was in the military, we used a layered system. This is a much more effective use of resources, and is also the same system used by the Secret Service.

Property boundary:

The property line of the facility or event. This is often secured by police directing traffic, employees of the location (i.e. Hilton employees) Generally, they are there to keep casual people out of the way. This filters out many if not most of the people in the area, and allows the next layer to concentrate on those who make it through. In the case of the WHCD, this area would be the grounds of the hotel and the streets immediately surrounding it.

The Controlled area:

This is a layer that is monitored and watched, but people in this area can’t pose a real threat. This area would have been the hotel building itself. Access is minimally controlled, mostly by asking people who enter to prove that they have legitimate business there. For example, show a room key to prove you are a guest of the hotel.

The Restricted Area:

This is an area where people have access to things that you want to protect. This would be the first layer that is protected by the Secret Service. People entering this area need an invitation, they will be searched on entry, and are carefully screened and monitored. The restricted area in this case would have been the ballroom itself, with the magnetometers being the control point allowing entrance to the restricted area. Our shooter made it to one such checkpoint and tried shooting his way through. He didn’t make it past the checkpoint, which is why the checkpoint is there.

The Exclusion Area

Access to this area is extremely limited. No one gets in here unless they are expressly authorized. This area would be the President’s escape route, where the CAT team is located, and other sensitive areas. No one is allowed in here unless they are Secret Service or are escorted by them.

The system is all about defense in depth:

Each inner layer adds more stringent access control. You don’t jump straight into an exclusion area—you pass through multiple controlled boundaries, with authorization becoming progressively stricter.
Access → Clearance → Invitation → Explicit designation

In the case of the shooter at the Hilton, the shooter penetrated the outer layer by simply being a guest at the hotel. That allowed him into the controlled area. However, he wasn’t authorized to go any further. He tried to go deeper, but only made it to the limits of the control point- he never even made it to the stairs that descended to the next layer.

Had he done so, he would have faced more agents who were better armed and had looser rules of engagement.

This is how layered security works. Your own house is the same- someone who knocks on your door to deliver a package is in the controlled area. If you open the door to accept the package and he attempts to push his way in (to the restricted area), but you tackle him just inside the door, that wasn’t a failure of security if he didn’t reach the bedroom where your loved ones are sleeping (the exclusion area).

Sure, this guy penetrated the outer layer. You can’t make the outer layer absolute. Hotels, city streets, and public venues must keep functioning, and there simply isn’t enough money or manpower to search every guest, lock down entire buildings indefinitely, or abuse people’s rights. Even for high-profile events, full “sterilization” of a large hotel is often impractical or politically unacceptable. The outer layer will always be porous by design, more of a filter than a brick wall. You accept risk at the outer edge. You manage risk in the middle. You eliminate risk at the core.

People who have read this post: 290
By Divemedic, ago

World War Eleven!

I will let this clip begin this post:

This is the caliber of Representative from the left. Of course, Democrats have doubled down. Just like Trump assassination attempts, they are claiming it was fake, or you misheard it, or something. They are claiming there is no transcript showing she said this, so obviously she didn’t say it

Why does the left do this? Simple: people identify with the causes they support. When you admit your support for someone so obviously stupid, you are admitting to being as stupid as they are if you are emotionally invested in them.

This extends to assassination attempts. Emotional investment means you either have to claim the assassination is a false flag, or you have to admit you are supporting murder.

“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
― George Orwell, 1984

People who have read this post: 228
By Divemedic, ago

On Duty

My thoughts on the question from earlier.

In December of 2024, I was in the room when a violent patient attempted to attack a pregnant doctor because she wouldn’t give him the drugs he wanted. I say attempted, because I stepped between them. He tried to punch a pregnant woman. He punched me in the face. He got probation. The secret is, the guy is a criminal douchebag that keeps getting his ass in trouble for hitting women, children, and feeble old men. The first time he got tied up with someone that wasn’t putting up with it, he got his ass handed to him, then went to jail. The system doesn’t handle people like this very well. He has arrests for battery, domestic battery, stalking, and witness intimidation- nearly all of the victims are women and old men.

In the case of this afternoon’s video, the assailant grabbed a woman’s ass. As it turns out, it was the wrong woman’s ass. It was the wrong woman because there was a real man there. I don’t mean real man in some macho, chest thumping sense. No, a real man is one who understands a couple of things:

  • Men are put here to defend and protect those who cannot do so for themselves, women and children especially.
  • More specifically, men are here to protect THEIR women and children.
  • If a man won’t protect others, he isn’t a man.

Women want that as well. A wife will put up with many things- she will help when money is tight. She will put up with your bullshit. All a wife REALLY wants and needs is to feel safe, and it is the husband’s duty to make that happen. If you can’t protect her and make her feel safe, then you have failed in your main and most important duty to her.
I actually showed that video to my wife, and she fully supports my opinion on this. Her statement was “Oh, we aren’t playing that game.” I told her to call the lawyer and come bail me out. The likelihood of a person with a clean record being charged with anything more than a misdemeanor is very low as evidenced by the dirtbag who punched me.

I don’t care. I will fight that fight in court. One thing I won’t EVER do is stand there and watch while somebody takes liberties with my wife. I will do whatever it takes to stop that attack on the two of us, use any necessary force- up to and including deadly force. If I am not willing to do so, then I might as well not have a wife or a carry permit.

One of the people who formed my core beliefs as an adult was Robert Heinlein.

  • If it has to be done, a man—a real man—shoots his own dog himself; he doesn’t hire a proxy who may bungle it.
  • Law-abiding people hardly dared go into a public park at night. To do so was to risk attack by wolf packs of children, armed with chains, knives, homemade guns, bludgeons… to be hurt at least, robbed most certainly, injured for life probably — or even killed. Murder, drug addiction, larceny, assault, and vandalism were commonplace. Nor were parks the only places — these things happened also on the streets in daylight, on school grounds, even inside school buildings. But parks were so notoriously unsafe that honest people stayed clear of them after dark.

Nowadays, many people think they are “more civilized” because they don’t believe in things like duty, responsibility, and honor. They think concepts like personal responsibility and sacrifice are outdated and quaint. They can’t even fathom things like spanking a child. We are civilized, don’t you know.

So now we are expected to put up with people grabbing our wives. We must do nothing but stare at the floor in shame and call the police. Who will do nothing but take a report and “take cover” behind their police car until the violence is done.

I am not now, nor have I ever been, the kind of person who leaves the defense of my loved ones to others. If you try to attack my wife (and make no mistake, grabbing her ass is a sexual attack) you are about to experience some serious repercussions.

Whatever it costs me to hire an attorney is what it costs.

One of the people on Twitter accused me of White Knight syndrome. At first I thought that he might be right. I had a girlfriend who once accused me of being a professional rescuer in every sense of the word, and she didn’t mean it in a nice way. No, a white knight is one who tries to save everyone. I don’t do that, but I will save my wife. Every time, no exceptions.

As a veteran, as a firefighter, and as a paramedic, I rushed into more dangerous situations than I care to think about. I was willing to die for those people, many of them I haven’t even met. I would do no less for my wife.

It’s my duty as a man, as a husband, and as a human being. I will accept the consequences of that, whatever they may be. One thing I won’t and can’t accept is to stand by while my wife is attacked.

I’m not taking shit. This isn’t bluster- I’ve run towards the sounds of gunshots, into burning buildings, and been into situations where most people won’t go. It’s part of my core beliefs- I won’t bow down to anyone, nor will I allow those I have sworn to protect to suffer or be attacked while I stand by and do nothing.

People who have read this post: 424
By Divemedic, ago

Poll

Take a look at this:

My thought is this is sexual battery, or at least an attempted one. One of my duties is to protect my wife from this sort of attack. I will use force to do so.

Some in comments to that video have said the husband will go to jail for using excessive force.

  • So do you think the law requires a husband to stand there and allow someone to caress his wife’s ass?
  • If no, what level of force is appropriate?
  • Did this husband’s use of force exceed that?

Others say that the husband deserves to have his head stomped in.

Is this force used by the husband excessive? Discuss.

People who have read this post: 919
By Divemedic, ago